An Interview with Director Sandi Dubowski - It's hard to say what drove Sandi Simcha Dubowski to direct his first feature-length film. It is not what you would call a casual exercise in cinema. Trembling Before G-d is an emotional, in-depth examination of the secret lives of gay and lesbian Orthodox and Hassidic Jews. While the subject matter may seem limited in both scope and audience, the real skill of Dubowski's film is in presenting a series of personal stories that transcend both religion and sexuality and become pure human drama. There's something admirable about people wanting to cling to their religion. There's also something heartbreaking about a religion that condemns a certain percentage of its adherents.

Trembling Before G-d debuted to great fanfare at last year's Sundance Film Festival and was nominated for the Grand Jury prize. The film went on to nab numerous awards at festivals across the globe, culminating in a nomination for this year's "Truer Than Life" award at the Independent Spirit Awards (the 'indie' equivalent of Oscars).

Of course, the film has also met with its detractors. Agudath Israel of America, the main ultra-Orthodox organization in America, attacked the film for not treating homosexuality as a mental illness to be cured. Still, the film has had an overwhelmingly positive response from audiences and religious organizations.

Alibi had a chance to speak with Dubowski before making his way toward Albuquerque for the New Mexico premiere of Trembling Before G-d.

Mark, one of the film's subjects is both Orthodox and gay.

Tell me a little bit about your background. What brought you to tell this story?

Well, there's really no good reason. This was my film school and my yeshiva all wrapped in one. I never went to film school. I did a short video with my 80-year-old grandmother called Boychik. I just sort of fell into the lap of filmmaking. I wasn't raised Orthodox. So it's a real big mystery [to me] why this movie? I started a video diary about what it was like to be gay in the Orthodox world, or whether there was homosexuality in the Orthodox world. I met Mark from London [one of the subjects of the film] at this international conference of gay and lesbian Jews. We just started going to all the yeshivas that had kicked him out for being gay. We went back to Israel. We went to all these synagogues he grew up in. We went to a religious pilgrimage on top of a mountain in Israel. I guess all of this started me on a path. We became like brothers, study partners in a yeshiva without walls. The world became my yeshiva. We spent a lot of years filming. Five years. And then more people came into the project.

How did you meet the other subjects?

I was on a constant search for five years, trying to find anyone--especially people who were still Orthodox and gay.

Did you meet a lot of people who did not want to appear on camera?

Oh, the vast majority.

It seems that many of these people are forced to live a very schizophrenic existence, split between religion and sexuality.
I think most of the people that I met either had left the community and become non-Orthodox or had gotten married and were lying to their spouses. So the number of people that are actually trying to integrate sexuality and spirituality is very tiny, but growing. It's perplexing. What does it mean to grapple with religious fundamentalism? That's the kind of drama you're seeing. I could reel off so many more stories that have that same level of drama. Certainly, as I've toured the film all over the world, [I've met] people who are in great pain, suffering very much.

It seems to me, spirituality is not the stumbling block here, but rather this growing concern over orthodoxy and fundamentalism in world religions.

I don't see this as an issue of fundamentalism as much as I would in, say, Christianity. I don't believe that Orthodox Judaism suffers from fundamentalism. I think we've got a whole tradition of trying to understand the Divine Word with hundreds of years of arguments over the Talmud. Now, that has been codified and certainly there are teachers today where there's an incredible amount of rigidity. But our tradition is based on debate and consent. So, we've got the toolbox of the Talmud to draw on. I think that reflects a very different attitude.

Do you think, then, there will be a time when Orthodox Judaism can accept this?

Well, look, 14--what are we up to?--15 orthodox synagogues have invited the film to screen in the synagogue. So, already, within just a year and a half of the film being out, there's a much better willingness to deal with this issue as a legitimate issue on the community table--not as something shameful and something that you shouldn't be talking about. I know this guy in Hungary before the war who went to speak to his Hassidic rebbe, and the Hassidic rebbe turned his face and didn't say anything. It's not that anymore. Now there are parents, there are families, there are friends who are demanding that the community deal with this issue because they have gay loved ones. It's going to move in two directions: It can move from the top down and it can move from the ground up. It's like any social movement. People are going to demand that the choices for their children are not: A) leave the community and not be religious; or B) lie. I think people want to find a place in formal Judaism for their children. Halacha (formal Jewish law) is a very slow process, but I sort of hope that by bringing forth these human testimonies, things will change. Like any court case, a person sits in front of a judge and they tell their story and the judge makes a ruling. I hope this publicity and these stories will force some Halachic authorities to hear those who struggle with those burdens every day as having some kind of weight.

Do you think this change in attitude has had anything to do with changes in society?

There's no doubt that the Orthodox world responds to larger societal tips. It's a very charged battle. But, look, the status of women has changed. There are women learning Torah [Jewish scripture] even Talmud [ancient Rabbinical writings] now when they didn't before. So there's a huge increase in women's learning.

Despite the heavy nature of the issue at hand, the film still finds a way to leaven its message with humor. Is that a typical Jewish response?

I think there is definitely an ability in Judaism to laugh at yourself. There's a little bit of a self-deprecating humor. I'm trying to think where the humor in the film comes from. ... When you're involved in people's lives, there's just such a varying palette of emotions. You work with people who are not all just walking zombies. They are all people who find, in the tiniest moments of life, a rich humor. I think if someone is beyond the ability to laugh, then they're really in trouble. ... Believe me, I shed gallons of tears during the making the film, but humor's got to be a key to any Jewish position.

How long have you been touring with the film?

I started at Sundance a year and a half ago. And I've been on the road for a year and a half, really. We've been opening in cities all over the U.S. and the world. It's amazing. This last year and a half, we've been to Australia, Poland, England, Mexico, Czech Republic. We're going to Brazil and Argentina, Nepal. It was in Berlin. Each one has got different stories.

Has it been important for you to tour with the film and talk to people?

Oh, it's been crucial for me. This is the kind of film where the credits roll and everyone's glued in their seats wanting to ask a barrage of questions. I find that our Q&As go for 45 minutes with barely anyone leaving, because people so much want to talk about what they saw. There are so many questions that still hang in the air, because it's not a film that offers any easy answers. It's a film that provokes a lot of questions. The questions are big: They're about family and they're about faith. They're about sexuality. They're about community. They're about god. And no matter what you are--whether Jewish or Muslim or Christian, or gay or straight--the film touches people. I was at Sundance and a guy came up to me and said, "I'm from Pakistan and I'm Muslim and I'm straight. Gimme a hug."